Chapter 2April 4, 1970

everyone,33 sat in the verandah of that house [above the Ashram’s entrance], sat there, had me sit beside him, and called everyone. Then he said, “I have resolved to withdraw from activity; she will be your Mother and will...” He named me officially. Then he withdrew to his room. As for me, I worked in what is now “Prosperity”.... But at the time, he felt Krishna in him – that’s why he withdrew.

Couldn’t he have continued in activity with Krishna’s presence?

I don’t know.

I don’t know.... I never asked him questions, to tell the truth; I would never ask anything: I listened to what he said.

(long silence)

That was the time when I remained without eating for ten days, just to see.

(Mother goes into a long contemplation)

I spend my nights – almost the whole night like that: I don’t sleep, and... time goes by so fast!... Sometimes I have visions.

(Mother plunges back)

It’s sixty years since Sri Aurobindo arrived at Pondicherry....

(silence)

Do you still get the Aphorisms?... I don’t remember having read those things.... Clearly, he wanted to break rules and conventions at all costs.34

I strongly felt that was what resulted in the European attitude: that mixing of sex and yoga and all 32That was the lime of the Evening Talks, between 1923 and 1926.

33On November 24, 1926.

(silence)

Do you have anything?... No questions, nothing to say?

There is a note from G., if you’d like me to read it.... He says:

“Mother, “My health problem [serious heart attacks] has led me to reveal many hidden elements in the body, like Mother’s love, grace, and Mother herself with me.... My body seems no more at the mercy of old beliefs. Thus, my confidence in the body is increasing more and more day by day, and I feel and see clearly that the body can throw away any kind of difficulty in it by coming in the contact with Mother’s love and grace. One day, I asked Mother from within not to allow more such attacks which bring me almost to a condition of collapse every now and then and, Mother, it never came afterwards since about ten days!...”35

(Mother remains silent)

Yes, he told me he was very struck to discover practically that “laws” don’t hold up, so-called

laws disappear.

(silence)

For quite some time lately, for weeks, night and day there has been a sort of demonstration of all that remains mixed in the body: old influences, old vibrations, old... and in the new way. So then, when the new way is pure, without mixture, there is still in the body consciousness... (Mother shows surprise) a sense of marvel at something that still appears impossible.

It gives the distance between what is and what must be....

But at times, all, all consequences of the old way of being suddenly seem erased – only, it doesn’t last.

(long silence)

Once you told me that you had seen Sri Aurobindo supramental on his bed....36 Yes, yes.

446 – “Errors, falsehoods, stumblings!” they cry. How bright and beautiful are Thy errors, O Lord! Thy falsehoods save Truth alive; by Thy stumblings the world is perfected.

35Original English.

There was a luminosity. The substance was... not radiant but... I can’t say “luminescent” because it was a golden color, but like luminescent bodies: it was a kind of golden mist coming out of his body.

What I meant was: is it an element (I who don’t see anything), an element not present now, or not

yet present, or what?

My impression was... yes, I might say that the proportions in the combination of matter weren’t the same.

That’s something I very often wondered about as far as bones are concerned – how will it be? There is obviously a suppleness, a flexibility and a plasticity that are impossible for our bodies as they are. So... as long as there is inside this sort of rigid framework, how can it be plastic?

But it was in Sri Aurobindo?

I SAW him like that – I didn’t touch him.

He was luminous and the impression was one of plasticity.

Only, he isn’t physical, so in the subtle physical that’s the way it is; but in the subtle physical there are no bones.

The transition between this and that is what’s difficult.

(long silence)

Basically, it’s having a permanence without fixity.

Until a new species was conceived of, it was thought that along with fixity there was death and dissolution, and there was no notion of something that would be permanent on earth BUT without being fixed.... We can’t say it’s impossible, because everything is possible, but... it means something very different in the combination of matter. Once you said, you told me that one would become visible or invisible at will – but that means a very great plasticity.

(Mother shakes her head and plunges in)

And...

(Mother shakes her head again

and plunges back for a long time)

We have a long way to go.

(very long silence)

Do you have any indication?... But it’s mental, no?

The body is quite incapable of saying anything.

The impression I have is that this subtle body, which is already supramental or supramentalized,

could materialize by using...

By using the material body as a support.

(Mother remains silent for a long time)

When there is no more “mixture” anywhere, as you say, then the fusion will be possible.

Maybe.

The body (when I go into contemplation like that), there is a moment when... the word “anguish” is too strong, much too strong, but the impression is of being on the verge of... the unknown – the unknown, the... something. A very, very odd sensation.

Almost constantly, it really has a very... at least a very odd sensation of being... of no longer being this and not yet being That. There.

(silence)

Inexpressible.

But it’s quite strange; there’s absolutely no fear, there’s no acute sensation (no acute sensation), and there is something... Well, the most precise I might say is: it’s a sort of new vibration. It’s so new that... you can’t call it anguish, but it’s... the unknown. A mystery of the unknown. But there’s nothing mental about it, of course, it’s just in the sensation of the vibration.

And that’s becoming constant. So there is the awareness that there’s only one solution for the body, it’s... total surrender – total. And in that total surrender it realizes that that vibration (how can I explain?), that vibration is not one of dissolution, but something... what?... The unknown, completely unknown – new, unknown.

Sometimes it’s struck with panic. And it can’t say it’s in pain much, I can’t call that suffering; it’s something... quite extraordinary. So, for it, the only solution is... to disappear in the divine Consciousness. Then everything is fine.

But the body knows it’s not that [i.e., dissolution]. You understand, it’s something it doesn’t know. For a time, it thought there were certain influences or certain actions or certain... and now it realizes it’s not that at all. The thing doesn’t depend on influences, doesn’t depend on events, doesn’t depend on action, doesn’t depend on... it’s... something.

So the body’s sole remedy is, so to speak, to snuggle up in the Divine: what will happen will happen.

Yes, the “other thing” must be so much “other” that for the body it must be like death!

It’s the equivalent, at any rate. That’s right. It’s the equivalent. But (smiling)... it doesn’t confuse the two. It doesn’t confuse the two, it KNOWS this is not what people call death.

(silence)

It’s a funny life, at any rate.