Chapter 4118 October

For a perfect realisation, the whole being must be illumined; but for the beginning of a realisation, it is probably easier for a body that does not possess a very developed mind.... For us, well, who have reached the maximum possibility of the mind, it is through the maximum that we have gone beyond: it is only when the mind had realised its maximum that it abdicated. And this is quite all right for the integral realisation, but generally the body is too much used to obeying the mind, it is not supple enough to be transformed. And that is why my mind has been sent away.... But that is a method which others cannot be encouraged to follow. For out of ten nine would die.

The mind?

If the mind goes away.

You think I would die?

The mind and the vital.

Yes, the vital, I understand, but if you removed my mind...

No, my child, I refuse to do it! (Mother laughs) It must... it must step down.

A great passivity is needed for the Force to be able to pass through quickly and reach the body. I see that each time there is a pressure for acting upon one part of the body or another, the thing begins by an absolute passivity which is... the “perfection of inertia”. You understand? It is the perfection of that which inertia represents as imperfect... something that has no activity of its own. It is just the most difficult thing for those who have a very well-developed mind, very difficult. Because the whole body has worked all its life for being just in this state of receptivity to the mind, which makes it obedient, passive, etc., and it is that which must be abolished.

How to explain?... The development through mind means a constant and general awakening of the whole being, even the most material, an awakening as a result of which there is also something quite opposite to sleep. And to receive the Supreme Force, one must have, on the contrary, the equivalent of immobility — the immobility of sleep, but absolutely conscious, absolutely conscious. The body feels the difference. It feels the difference to such an extent that... for example, I stretch myself in the evening and I remain like that, for hours together I remain so; and if after a time I fall into ordinary sleep, my body wakes up in a terrible anguish! And then it begins again to put itself back into that state. This anguish I feel from time to time — and it goes away as soon as it gets back into the true attitude, which is a state of immobility, but absolutely conscious. “Immobility”, I do not know how to say it.... But it is almost the opposite of the inertia in immobility.

And it is that which is making me understand now the reason why creation began with inertia. And so, that state had to be rediscovered (Mother describes a big curve) after having gone through all the states of consciousness. And it is that which has given us... (Mother laughs) for us, it is a fine mess! But when it is done purposely, it is no more a mess.

For me the difficulty that I meet very often is a need also of activity in aspiration.

Yes, yes.

I have the feeling that I must not stop actively aspiring.

Often I could very well leave all that aside, without stirring, but...

Yes, but then the aspiration comes.

I feel the need of the activity of aspiration.

Yes, it is to counteract inertia. Because we still have inertia as our heritage.

But then, in such a case what is to be done? Should one let everything be spread out or... should one persist in this active aspiration that is truly intense?

It is difficult to say, because I am convinced that each one has his own way, but for this body the way is to have this active aspiration.

To have the active aspiration? Yes, but then it is no longer this immobility.

It has got the thing, it has understood the means, how to do it.

The two together, the union of the two?

Yes, they are together. That is what it succeeded in getting: a complete immobility and an intense aspiration. It is only when immobility is there without the aspiration that it falls into a frightful anguish which wakes it up immediately. It is that, an intense aspiration. And it is absolutely immobile, immobile within, as though all the cells became immobile.... It must be that. What we call intense aspiration must be the supramental vibration. It must be the divine vibration, the true divine vibration. That I have said to myself often.

But if, even for a single minute, the body falls into the state of inertia — immobility without aspiration — it is awakened by an anguish as though it were going to die! You understand? It is to that degree. For it, immobility means... yes, it has the feeling that the highest vibration, the vibration of the true Consciousness, is so intense that it is... it is equivalent to the inertia of immobility — an intensity which is not perceptible to us. So great is this intensity that it is, for us, equivalent to inertia.

It is this which is getting established. It is this which has made me understand (because now the body understands), has made it understand the process of creation.... One might almost say that it began by a state of perfection, but unconscious, and that it must pass through this state of unconscious perfection to a state of conscious perfection, and between the two is the imperfection. Words are foolish, but you understand.

(Silence)

You know, the feeling is that one is on the threshold of understanding. And it is not at all a mental understanding, not at all, not at all. (One has had that, but it is nothing, nothing, it is zero.) It is an understanding that one lives. And that the mind cannot have, cannot. And the feeling is that only the body — receptive, open, in any case partially transformed — is capable of having the understanding. Understanding the creation, what we call creation: why and how, the two things. It is not at all a thing thought out, it is not a thing felt: it is a thing lived and that is the only way of knowing.... It is a consciousness.

But you know, when this understanding comes — it comes and then it becomes like this (gesture as of a luminous inflation), it comes like this and then it dwindles, and comes again and again dwindles; but when it does come, it is so obvious, so simple that one asks oneself why one was not able to know it before!

Still more time is needed.... How long, I do not know. But the notion of time is also quite arbitrary.

We want always to translate all our experiences into the old state of consciousness and that is the misery! We think it is necessary, it is indispensable — and it is stupefying. It delays awfully.

(Silence)

Everything, everything, everything that men have said, everything they have written, everything they have taught is only a way of saying. It is only to try to make oneself understood, but that is impossible. And when one thinks (Mother laughs) how much one has fought for things that are so relative!...

(Long silence)

Looking at the days as they pass and at things that happen, the experience of the body appears like this.... In some way, at some moments it is in the consciousness of immortality, and then, through influence (and still, from time to time, through old habit) it falls back into the consciousness of mortality, and that is truly... for it now to fall back into the consciousness of mortality is an awful anguish; and it is only when it comes out of it, when it returns to the true consciousness, that the thing vanishes. And I understand why there have been people, there have been Yogis who spoke of the unreality of the world; because, to the consciousness of immortality, the consciousness of mortality is an unreal absurdity. It is like this (Mother passes the fingers of one hand into the fingers of the other, indicating a coming and going of the two consciousnesses). So it is like this at one moment and like that at another. And the other state, the state of immortality, is immutably peaceful, tranquil, with... like staggeringly rapid waves, so rapid that they seem immobile. It is like that — nothing moves (apparently) in a tremendous Movement. And then as soon as the other state returns, all the ordinary notions also return, that is to say... in fact now, in the state where it is, that gives it the pain and the suffering of a falsehood. But it is still like that (same gesture of coming and going).... To come out of it, the only, the only effective way is just to give up, surrender. It is not expressed by words, nor by ideas, nor by anything; it is a state of vibration in which nothing but the Divine Vibration has any value. Then, then only, things are put back in order.

But all that, as soon as one speaks of it... Note, however, that this is constant: it comes at night, it comes in the morning: and then at other times when... (gesture vast, united, with a smile) no more problems, no more difficulty, nothing.

(Silence)

There is a background (it is that particularly), a background of unconscious negation which is behind everything, everything, everything, still; it is still there everywhere — you eat, you breathe, you receive this negation.... It is still a colossal work to transform all that. But when one is, as one might say, on “the other side” (these are not “sides”), but in the other state, it appears so natural, so simple, that you ask yourself why it is not like that, why it appears so difficult; and then, as soon as you are on the other side, it is... (Mother holds her head within her hands). The mixture is still there, without doubt.

Indeed, the ordinary state, the old state is consciously (that is to say, it is a conscious perception) that of death and suffering. And then in the other state, death and suffering appear as things absolutely... unreal. There!

Here, take it (Mother gives a flower of transformation). No impatience. A trustful patience. In truth, everything is for each one as good as it can be. All the time it is the old movements that get impatient.... That is to say, when one sees the all, one finds that certainly impatience has been created to counteract inertia — but now it is done with, that time has gone.

19 November 1969 This morning about eight o’clock, I could have said many things.... Because there came a day when many problems had cropped up as a consequence of something that had happened, then this morning (towards the end of the night), I had the experience that was the explanation. And for two hours I lived in an absolutely clear perception (not a thought: a clear perception) of the why and how of creation. It was so luminous, so clear; it was irrefutable. It lasted at least for four or five hours and then it petered out; gradually the experience diminished in intensity and clarity.... I had just seen many people, then... it is difficult to explain now. But all had become so limpid; all the contrary theories, everything was at the bottom (Mother looks from above), and all the explanations, all that Sri Aurobindo had said and also some things that Th´eon had said were seen as a consequence of the experience: each thing in its place and absolutely clear. At that time I could have said it, but now it will be a little difficult.

Is it not so? In spite of what one has read and all the theories and explanations, something was left (how to say it?) difficult to “explain” (it is not “explaining”: that is quite trivial). For example, suffering and the will to inflict suffering, that side of the Manifestation. There has been, of course, as though a prevision of the original identity of hatred and love, because the thing was going to the extremes, but as for all the rest it was difficult. Today it is so luminously simple, yes, it is that, so obvious!... (Mother looks at a note which she had written.) Words are nothing. And then I had scribbled with a pencil that wrote badly.... I don’t know if you can see the words. To me they represented something very exact: now they are nothing but words. (The disciple reads):

Stability and change Inertia and transformation...

Yes, in the Lord they were evidently identical principles. And it was particularly that, the simplicity of this identity. And now they are nothing but words.

Stability and change Inertia and transformation Eternity and progress Unity = ... (The disciple is not able to make out the words.)

It was not I who wrote it, that is to say, not the ordinary consciousness, and the pencil... I do not know any more what I have put down. (Mother tries to read the words, but in vain.) It was the vision of the creation — the vision, the understanding, the how, the why, the whither, everything was there, the whole of it together, and clear, clear, clear.... I tell you, I was in the midst of a golden glory — luminous, dazzling.

Well, the earth was there as the centre representing the creation, and then there was the identity of the inertia of the stone, of what is most inert, and then... (Mother tries once more to read the words.)

I do not know if it will come.

(Mother goes into a long concentration.)

One might say like that... for the convenience of expression, I would say: the “Supreme” and the “creation”. In the Supreme, it is a unity that contains all the possibilities perfectly unified, without any differentiation; in creation, it is, so to say, the projection of all that makes up this unity by dividing the opposites, that is to say, by separating them (it is that which has been seized by someone who said that creation is separation): for example, night and day, black and white, good and evil, etc., etc. — all that, but it is our explanation. The whole of it, all together is a perfect unity, immutable and... indissoluble. Creation means separation of all that constitutes this unity — one might call it the division of consciousness. The division of consciousness starts from the unity conscious of its unity, in order to arrive at the unity conscious of its multiplicity in the unity. And then it is this path which, because of its fragments, is translated for us by space and time. For us, such as we are, it is possible for each point of this consciousness to be conscious of itself and conscious of the original Unity. And that is the work which is being done; that is to say, each infinitesimal element of this consciousness, while keeping this state of consciousness, is in the process of rediscovering the state of the total original consciousness — and the result is the original Consciousness conscious of its unity and conscious of the whole play, conscious of the innumerable elements of this Unity. This for us is translated into the sense of time: moving from the Inconscient up to this state of Consciousness. And the Inconscient is the projection of the first Unity (if one can say it; all these words are altogether senseless), of the essential unity which is only conscious of its unity — yes, that is the Inconscient. And this Inconscient becomes more and more conscious in beings who are conscious of their infinitesimal existence and at the same time, through what we call progress or evolution or transformation, become conscious of the original Unity. And that, as it was seen, explains everything.

Words are nothing. Everything, everything from the most material to the most ethereal, everything finds its place there — clear, clear, clear, a vision.

And evil, what we call evil, has its indispensable place in the whole. It will not be felt as evil the moment one becomes conscious of That — necessarily. Evil is this infinitesimal element looking at its infinitesimal consciousness; but as consciousness is essentially one, it resumes, regains the Consciousness of the Unity — the two together. It is that, yes, it is that which has to be realised. It is this wonderful thing, of this I had the vision at that moment.... And for the beginnings (are they the beginnings?), what is called in English the outskirts, what is farthest from the central realisation, that becomes the multiplicity of things, and the multiplicity also of sensations, of feelings, of all... the multiplicity of consciousness. It is this act of separation that has created, that is creating the world constantly and that is creating everything at the same time: suffering, happiness, everything, everything that is created through this... what might be called “diffusion”; but it is absurd, it is not a diffusion — we ourselves live in the sense of space, so we speak of diffusion and concentration, but it is nothing of the sort.

And I understood why Th´eon used to say that we were living at the time of “Equilibrium”; that is to say, it is through the equilibrium of all these innumerable points of consciousness and of all these opposites that the central Consciousness is re-discovered. And all that is said is stupid — at the same time as I say this, I see to what degree it is stupid. But one cannot do otherwise. It is something... something so concrete, so true, yes, so ab-so-lu-te-ly... that.

As long as I was living that, it was... But perhaps I could not have said it at that time. That (Mother points to the note), I was obliged to take up some paper and jot it down, and in such a way that I do not know any more what I jotted down.... The first thing written was this:

Stability and change It was the idea of the original Stability (one could say), which is translated in the Manifestation by inertia. And the growth is translated by change. Then came:

Inertia and transformation But it is gone, the sense is gone — the words had a sense.

Eternity and progress They were the opposites (these three things).

Then there was a gap (Mother draws a line under the triple opposition), and once again a Pressure, and then I wrote this:

Unity = ... (three illegible words follow)

And that was a much more true expression of the experience, but it is illegible — I think it was illegible deliberately. One must have the experience to be able to read it.

(The disciple tries to read the words:) It seems to me that there is a word “rest”?

Ah! It must be that. Rest and...

(Mother goes into concentration.)

Is it not “power”?

Ah! Yes, “Power and rest combined”.

Yes, that is it.

It was not I who chose the words, so they must have a special force — when I say “I”, I mean the consciousness that is there (gesture above the head); it is not that consciousness; it was something that was pressing down that compelled me to write. (Mother recopies her note:)

Stability and change Inertia and transformation Eternity and progress Unity = power and rest combined.

The idea is that the two combined restored that state of consciousness which wanted to express itself.

It was on the universal scale — not on the individual scale. I put a line between the two to mean that they had not come together.

But already, often, when you speak of this supramental experience, you say that it is a staggering movement and at the same time it is as though completely immobile. You have said it often.

But you know, most often I do not remember what I have once said.

You say: the vibration is so rapid that it is imperceptible, it is as though coagulated and immobile.

Yes. But this was really a Glory in which I lived for hours together this morning.

And then all, all, all notions, all of them, even the most intellectual, all became as... as though childishness. It was so obvious that one had the feeling: there is no need to speak of it!

All human reactions, even the highest, the purest, the no-blest, appeared so childish!... There is a sentence written by Sri Aurobindo somewhere that was coming all the while to me. One day, I do not remember where, he had written something, a rather long sentence in which there was this: “And when I feel jealous, I know that the old man is still there.” It is now perhaps more than thirty years since I read it — yes, almost thirty years — and I remember, when I read “jealous”, I said to myself: How can Sri Aurobindo be jealous? And so after thirty years I have understood what he meant by being “jealous” — it is not at all what men call “jealous”, it was altogether another state of consciousness. I saw it clearly. And this morning it came back to me: “And when I feel jealous, I know that the old man is still there.” To be “jealous” for him did not mean what we call “jealous”.... It is this infinitesimal particle that we call the individual, this particle of infinitesimal consciousness which places itself at the centre, which is the centre of the perception, and which consequently perceives things coming like that (gesture towards oneself) or going like that (gesture outward) and all that does not come to it gives it a kind of perception that Sri Aurobindo called “jealous”: the perception that things are going towards diffusion, instead of coming in towards cen-tralisation; it was that which he called “jealous”. So he said: When I feel jealous (this was what he meant to say), I know that the old man is still there; that is to say, this infinitesimal particle of consciousness can still be at the centre of itself; it is the centre of action, the centre of perception, the centre of sensation....

(Silence)

Yes, I could notice — it is the time when I do all my physical work — I could notice that the whole work could be done without any alteration in the consciousness. It was not that which altered my consciousness; what veiled my consciousness was seeing people: it is when I began to be here and to do what I have been doing every day: projecting the divine Consciousness upon people. But it came back... (how can one say it?) on the borders; that is to say, instead of being within, I began to perceive it, when you asked me. But that feeling is no longer there — there was nothing but that any more! That alone was there, and everything, everything has changed — appearance, meaning, etc.

That must be the supramental consciousness: I believe that this is the supramental consciousness.

But one could conceive very well that for a consciousness wide and quick enough, if I may say so, capable of seeing not merely a bit of the path, but the whole path at the same time...

Yes, yes.

The whole would be a moving perfection.

Yes.

Evil is simply holding one’s vision on one small angle; then one says, “It is evil”, but if one sees the entire path... In a total consciousness, obviously there is no evil.

There are no contraries. No contraries — not even contradic-tions; I say: no contraries. It is that Unity, it is living in that Unity. And that cannot be translated by thoughts or words. I am telling you, it is... a vastness without limits and a light... a light without movement, and at the same time an ease... an ease not recognised as such. Now I am convinced that it is that, the supramental consciousness.

And necessarily, necessarily that must change the appear-ances gradually.

(Long silence)

There are no words that can explain the magnificence of the Grace, how the whole is combined so that all may go as quickly as possible. And individuals are miserable to the extent to which they are not conscious of it and take a false position in regard to what is happening to them.

But what is difficult to think is that at each moment it must be... it is the perfection.

Yes, that is it.

At each instant, it is the perfection.

At each instant. There is no other thing... When I was there, there was no other thing. And yet, as I have told you, it was the time when I was physically extremely busy — all the work was being done, without disturbing anything; on the contrary, I believe I was doing things much better than usual... I do not know how to explain. It was not, as it were, a thing “added”: it was quite natural.

Life as it is can be lived in that consciousness — but it is then lived quite well!... Nothing needs to be changed, what is to be changed changes itself quite naturally.

I am going to give you an example. For a few days, I had some difficulty with... I will not name him; pressure had to be put on him to correct some of his movements. Today he was conscious of it in quite a different way from the usual, and in the end he said that he was on the way to change (that is true), and all that not only without a word, but without any movement of the consciousness for putting pressure. There you are. That is a proof.... All is done automatically, as an imposition of the Truth without any necessity of intervention: simply to remain in the true consciousness, that is all, that is sufficient.

But then, in spite of everything, the body kept just a little consciousness of its needs all the while (although it was not busy with itself; I was always saying: It is not busy with itself, it is not interested). But that is what Sri Aurobindo used to say: I feel I am still the old man. I understood that this morning, for it was no longer there. Well, this sort of a very quiet perception of what is still not all right — a pain here, a difficulty there — very calm, very indifferent, but it is perceived (without its taking any importance), and even that gone, wholly swept away!... I hope it won’t come back. It is really... this, I understand, it is a transformation. One is conscious in a golden vastness — my child, it is wonderful — luminous, golden, peaceful, eternal, all-powerful.

And how it is coming.... No word is there to express it indeed, this wonder regarding the Grace.... The Grace, the Grace is a thing that surpasses all comprehension, with its clear-seeing kindliness.... Naturally the body had the experience. Something had happened that I will not tell you and it had the true reaction; it had not the old reaction, it had the true reaction — it smiled, with the Smile of the supreme Lord — it smiled. That was there for a whole day and a half. And it was this difficulty which enabled the body to make the last progress, enabled it to live in this Consciousness: if all had been harmonious, things could have lasted still for years — it is wonderful, wonderful!

And how stupid men are! When the Grace has come to them, they push it away, saying, “Oh! What horror!”... That I have known for a long time, but my experience is... dazzling.

Yes, each thing is perfectly, wonderfully what it ought to be at every moment.

Quite so.

But it is our vision that is not attuned.

Yes, it is our separated consciousness.

The whole has been brought with lightning rapidity towards the consciousness that will be the Consciousness of the point and of the all, at the same time.

(Long silence)

(Mother finishes recopying her note.) There, now I am writing today’s date.

It is the 19th.

19 November 1969, supramental consciousness.

(Silence)

The first descent of the supramental force was a 29, and this is a 19... The 9 is something to note there.... So many things there are which we do not know!

(Silence)

I have already had the experience, partially, that when one is in this state of inner harmony and no part of the attention is turned towards the body, the body works perfectly well. It is this... “self-concentration” which upsets everything. And this I have observed many times, many times.... In reality one does make oneself ill. It is the narrowness of consciousness, the division. If you let it work, there is... everywhere there is a Consciousness and a Grace that do everything so that all may go well, and it is because of this imbecility that all goes wrong — it is strange! The ego-centric imbecility, it is that which Sri Aurobindo calls “the old man”.

It is truly interesting.

10 December 1969 Progress is going on at a giant’s pace — that shakes the house a little, but it goes on at a giant’s pace. And for some, like X for example, it is very conscious. She had an accident in the knee long ago and this leg is a little weaker than the other one — there was a possibility of an upsetting. She noticed that so long as she had the correct attitude she felt nothing, there was nothing, it seemed to have gone altogether. As soon as she fell back into the ordinary consciousness, the illness returned.... And she has had innumerable experiences. I found it very interesting. Others also.

And it is truly interesting. It is truly interesting because it has a clarity altogether limpid and obvious, because it is solely a state of consciousness. When one has the consciousness (that is to say, as the consciousness grows more and more true — not something that is arrested, but a consciousness that is ascending), when you are within that, everything is all right; as soon as you fall back into the old consciousness, either unprogressive or progressing slowly and imperceptibly, then the disorder returns. And that is as though a lesson given in an altogether clear and obvious way.

It is truly interesting. And the body goes on learning. It learns very quickly.

(Silence)

Surely a big stride will have been taken when man will naturally turn to perfect himself instead of waiting to find perfection in others.... This reversal is the very basis of all true progress. The first human instinct: “It is the fault of circumstances, the fault of people, the fault... this one is like this, that one is like that, the other one...” And this goes on indefinitely. The first step, the very first step is to say: “If I were as I ought to be or if this body were as it ought to be, all would be perfectly all right for it.” If in order to progress, you were to wait for others to progress, you would have to wait indefinitely. That is the very first thing that is to be circulated everywhere. Never put the blame on others or on circumstances, because whatever the circumstances, even those that appear the worst, if you keep the true attitude and have the true consciousness, they will have no importance at all for your inner progress, no importance — I say this and I include even death.

Indeed, that seems to be the first lesson to learn.

(Silence)

Sri Aurobindo had written (I translate freely) that the notion of sin has been introduced to hasten progress, and immediately (Mother laughs) man saw sin in all others — he never saw it in himself! Sri Aurobindo’s sentence is charming, but I do not remember it.1 1 “The sense of sin was necessary in order that man might become disgusted with his own imperfections. It was God’s corrective for egoism. But man’s egoism meets God’s device by being very dully alive to its own sins and very keenly alive to the sins of others.”

Thoughts and Aphorisms, Cent. Vol. 17, p. 86 13 December 1969 I am receiving continuously, almost daily, the aphorisms of Sri Aurobindo, which I had forgotten completely. There were very interesting things.... Some of them give me the feeling that they are a kind of transcription (one might say “intellectual”, but it is not that, it is a mentalised higher mind, that is to say, it is accessible to thought) of the experience of the supramental consciousness that I had, in which this difference of good and evil and all that, appears as childishness, and Sri Aurobindo expresses it in the aphorisms in a way accessible to the intellect. Only... those who understand do not understand well! because they understand in the old way.

Do you remember these aphorisms?... There is one where he says: “If I cannot be Rama, then I would be Ravana...” and he explains why. It is in that series.1

(Silence)

There is a practical problem there: it is clear there are some movements which one would like to eliminate, because one finds that it is a fault, but one does not know how to do it. Is it from above? You put the light upon such a movement each time it comes up, and then...

It depends upon the kind of movement, my child, and in which part of the being and what type of movement.

1 “Men talk of enemies, but where are they? I only see wrestlers of one party or the other in the great arena of the universe.

“The saint and the angel are not the only divinities; admire also the Titan and the Giant.

“The old writings call the Titans the elder gods. So they still are, nor is any god entirely divine unless there is hidden in him also a Titan.

“If I cannot be Rama, then I would be Ravana; for he is the dark side of Vishnu.”

Thoughts and Aphorisms, Cent. Vol. 17, pp. 106-07

I am sure that each difficulty is a special problem. You can’t make a general rule.

For example, the other day you said that birth is a “purge”... (Mother laughs). You remember: people who have suppressed everything, find the same thing reap-pearing in the children.2 Yes, yes!

And you said that this gave a key to what should not be done.

Yes.

Now I would like to know what is the key to cure without suppression? Precisely because the Light is usually thrown, and then the wrong movement is driven underground.

Yes, that is a general rule. The opposite is to be done: instead of driving it underground, it is to be offered. It is to place the thing, the movement itself, to project it into the light.... Generally it wriggles and refuses! But (Mother laughs) that is the only way. That is why this Consciousness is so precious.... Well, what 2 “For the vast majority of those who bring forth children almost without wanting it, ‘like that’, and who have had an education, that is to say, who have had their brains crammed with ideas of certain defects one should not have and of qualities one should have — all that had been driven down into their being, all the vicious instincts, all come up. I have observed and I have seen and I remember some things I read very very long ago — I suppose it was in Renan: he wrote that one must distrust parents who were good and very respectable, because (Mother laughs) birth is a ‘purge’! And he had said also: observe carefully the children of bad people, because they are often a reaction! And after my experience, when I had seen, I said to myself: ‘But this man was quite right! It is a way for men to purge themselves. They throw out of themselves all that they do not want’.... And it is very interesting, because that gives the key to what one has to do. Showing to you what is not to be done, it gives you the key to the thing that is to be done.”

brings about the suppression is the idea of good and bad, a kind of contempt or shame for what is considered bad, and you do like this (gesture of repulsion), you do not want to see it, you do not want it to be there. It must... The first thing — the very first thing to realise is that it is the weakness of our consciousness that makes this division and that there is a Consciousness (now I am sure of it) in which that does not exist, in which what we call “evil” is as much necessary as what we call “good”, and that if we can project our sensation — or our activity or our perception — into that Light, that will bring the cure.3 Instead of suppressing or rejecting it as something to be destroyed (it cannot be destroyed!), it has to be projected into the Light. And because of this I have had for several days a very interesting experience: instead of seeking to throw away far from oneself certain things (which one does not accept, and which produce an imbalance in the being), instead of doing that, to accept them, take them as part of oneself and... (Mother opens her hands) offer them up. They do not want to be of-fered, but there is a way of compelling them: the resistance is diminished in the proportion as we can diminish in us our sense of disapprobation; if we can replace this sense of disapprobation by a higher understanding, then we succeed. It is much more easy.

I believe it is that. All, all the movements that drag you down must be put in contact with the higher understanding.

Only, it is beyond the mind obviously. Because, as I said presently that the aphorisms of Sri Aurobindo were expres-sions understandable to the intellect — but all the same that 3 At the time of publishing this talk, Mother added the following comment: “In this Consciousness where the two contraries, the two opposites are joined together, both change their nature, they do not continue to be what they are. They are not simply joined and remain the same: their nature changes and that is of great importance. Their nature, their action, their vibration become wholly different as soon as they are joined together. It is the separation that makes them what they are. Do away with the separation and their very nature changes. It is no longer good or bad, but something else, something that is whole and entire.”

diminishes: it diminishes, it has no longer the dazzle of understanding without words — it is there, there alone that things can be arranged.

Even when it is explained to oneself, it diminishes. One must say nothing. It is like (Mother laughs) putting on a layer of paint that only distorts.

Mother suddenly takes up a notebook nearby and writes her answer to a letter that she had read at the beginning of the interview.

It came that way. It is in that way it happens: all of a sudden, and then it remains and does not want to go away until I write it down. It is amusing.

It is amusing, because it does not correspond (I cannot even say what I am thinking of, because to say the truth, I think no more) to my experience, but to what the other has need of. The answer is dictated for the other. The words, the expressions, the turn of phrase, the presentation differ completely according to the person to whom it is written. And that consciousness which is there (gesture upward) has nothing to do with it. It receives. It receives and then it comes down and it does like this (gesture of hammering) until I write it down! It does not want to go away until it is written. It is very amusing.... In that way one can work hard without tiring oneself! (Mother laughs.)

I would like very much to have just a seed.

Take it! (Mother, laughing, gives her hands.)

Because, even in mental silence — I am always in the habit of writing in mental silence — but in spite of everything, even in this silence I am on guard lest the old formations or reactions come in and express themselves in the silence.

Ah, yes.

I am afraid of that.

Yes, old things come up.

But do you not feel they are coming from above?

I feel the Force is there and it comes down.

Yes, and then?

Well, yes, but afterwards, when I write certain things, I say to myself...

Ah! That happens often.

I say to myself: “Perhaps I should not have said that.”

But then it is the mind that interferes.

I do not know.

That happens to me also. Sometimes I write and then send it off, and afterwards I remember what I had written, and I tell myself: “The devil! I should not have said that!”... And I find out that it was all right — that it is the reaction which is a mental reaction.

That has happened to me many a time. For example the other day, I had to write to Z. Very often he writes unacceptable things, but I say nothing; and the other day I wrote to him a rather strong letter asking him: “What does that mean?” And afterwards I said to myself, “No, I must not move,” and I did not send the letter.... What should be done, I do not know?

That, my child...

(Silence)

It is difficult.

Yes.... But when you turn upward or you aspire or you are like this, open to the supreme Consciousness, it is concrete?

Ah, yes, it is solid.

It is concrete? One must... You understand, there is only one way, the ego must go, that is all. It is that. Only when, there, instead of “I” there is nothing any more: you know, it is altogether flat like this (gesture signifying something immense, smooth, without a wrinkle), having a kind of... it is not even expressed by words, but a very stable sensation of: “What Thou willest, as Thou willest” (the words become too small). Indeed, to have a concrete sensation that this (the body), this does not exist, it is only used — there is only That. It is That which does like this (gesture of pressure). This feeling of That, this conscious Vastness which (Mother stretches her arms).... In the end you do see it (“seeing”, it is not a vision with images but it is a vision... I do not know with what! but it is very concrete, much more concrete than the images), a vision of this vast Force, this vast Vibration which presses, presses, presses... and then the world which wriggles under it and the thing which opens, and when it opens, that enters and spreads.

This is truly interesting. This is the only solution. There is no other. All the rest, it is aspirations, conceptions, expectations... it is still the superman, it is not the supramental. It is a higher humanity which tries to draw the whole of its humanity upward, but that... that is of no use, of no use.

The picture is very clear, of this whole humanity which clings in order to climb, which seeks to hold like that, but which does not give itself — it wants to take! And that, that will not do. It must do away with itself. Then the Thing will be able to come and take its place.

The whole secret is there. For example, all this side of humanity that wants to take things by force and pulls them up there (gesture indicating as high as the forehead)... it is interesting: it is interesting, but it is not that! It is not that; all these possibilities must be exhausted so that something in humanity is able to understand... that there is only that (Mother opens her hands in a gesture of self-effacement), and then to let oneself lie prostrate till one disappears.

Indeed, that is the most difficult thing: to learn to disappear.

(Silence)

Well, my child (Mother laughs), we shall get there!

27 December 1969

There is almost a feeling of being immersed in Matter.... In spite of this kind of apparent absorption in problems and practical work, is any yoga or any thing being done even when we are externally so much absorbed that we have no perception that we are doing anything?

Oh! But now the whole being (the body has understood it quite well), the whole being knows that everything comes to make you go forward as quickly as possible, everything: obstacles, contradictions, lack of understanding, useless preoccupations, everything, everything, everything to make you go forward; it is for touching one point, then another, then yet another, and make you advance as fast as possible. If you are not concerned with this Matter, how can it change?

And it is very clear, it is quite evident that all objections, all contradictions come merely from a superficial mind which sees only the appearance of things. It is precisely to put your consciousness on guard against that, so that it might not be duped by such things and might see clearly that it is altogether external, superficial, and that behind this, all that is being done is moving as fast as possible towards... transformation.

(Long silence)

Intelligence at its higher level understands very easily that it knows nothing and it falls quite easily into the attitude required for progress, but even they who have this intelligence, when it is a question of material things, have the instinctive feeling that all that is known, understood and founded on established experi-ences; and there you become vulnerable. And that is exactly what the body is being made to learn, the uselessness of the present way of seeing and understanding things, based on the good, the bad, the fair, the foul, the luminous, the obscure... all these contradictories; and the whole judgment, the whole conception of life is based upon that (the material life), and it is to teach you the inanity of this perception. And I see it. The work has become very acute, very persistent, as though you were called upon to go quickly.

Even the practical part, which thought that it had learnt how to live and know what is to be done and how it is to be done, must also understand that it was not the true knowledge nor the true way of using external things.

(Silence)

There are even amusing things.... This Consciousness which is at work, it is as though “teasing” the body all the time; all the time it says to it: “You see, you have this sensation; well, what is its basis? You think you know it; do you really know what is there behind it?” and for all the small things of life, things of every minute. And then the body is like that (Mother opens big astonished eyes) and tells itself: “It is true, I know nothing.” But its answer is always the same, it says: “I do not claim that I know, let the Lord do whatever He wills”, it is like that. And then, there is this thing (if that could be caught permanently, it would be good): non-intervention in the work of the Lord (to say the thing in the simplest way).

(Silence)

It is demonstrated by the fact, by the experience of every minute that when a thing is done with this kind of feeling of acquired wisdom or of acquired understanding, of an experience lived through, etc., to what degree it is... one may say “false” (misleading, in any case) and that there is some other thing behind which makes use of that (as it does of everything) but is not tied to this knowledge nor dependent upon it nor upon what we call the experience of life nor upon anything of that sort. It has a much more direct, much more profound, much more “distant” vision; that is to say, it sees much farther, much wider and much in advance, something no external experience can give.... And it is a modest growth, without any outburst, not making a show of anything: it is a very little thing of every minute — every minute, every second, every thing. As though all the while there was something that was showing you the ordinary way of living, of seeing and doing, and then... the true way. Both, like that. For all things.

It is so to such a degree that the attitude towards certain vibrations brings you complete ease or it can make you completely sick! And it is the same vibration. Things like that, things bewildering. And every minute, it is like that — every minute, for everything.

Well, the consciousness here takes a certain attitude and then it is all delight and harmony; and the thing remains the same, but then (gesture of just a tilt to the left), a slight change in the attitude of the consciousness, and the thing becomes almost unbearable! Experiences of this kind, all the time, all the time... just to show that there is only one thing that has importance, the attitude of the consciousness: the old attitude of the individual being (gesture of contraction) or that (gesture of expansion). It must be (to put it into words that we understand) the presence of the ego and the abolition of the ego. It is that.

And then, as I have said, for all the actions of life, even the most ordinary, it is demonstrated that if the presence of the ego is suffered (surely to make you understand what it is), it can really lead to an imbalance of health, and that the only remedy is the disappearance of the ego — and at the same time the disappearance of all illness. For things that we consider quite unimportant, quite... And it is for everything, for everything, all the while, all the while, night and day.